Under Construction... *not trading advice, not your mentor*
Chicago, Il
Joined April 2012
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Are you familiar with the Broadway play and film "The Producers"?
I feel like there are #Propfirms that are a proverbial "Spring Time for Hitler", if we draw an analogy.
You know... created with the intention of failure; because ultimately its pretty profitable if you fail correctly.
You can draw a line to the day that I ramped up my size @breakoutprop
It's no secret I treat each #perp #propfirm account likes it's own singular trade (account loss limit is my stop).
That's a fancy way of saying I full port every trade.
I started doing this earlier this year, with 10k and 25k size plans - working my way up for the 200k.
I specifically use the Turbo accounts, as the 1:3 loss limit to target ratio makes sense with the 3% drawdown and lower cost for the account.
While ramping to the 200k has increased my costs; I have also been able to greatly increase the average #payout I am taking.
Trading? Gambling? Investing? What exactly is this called?!
This is prop.
It's a little bit of everything gamified together.
I know one thing for certain I am not here to be right, I am her to make money...
Play the game, it's meant to be played, and check out Breakout with code DRAFT for max discount
Not financial advice
Draft Trader retweeted
The amount of mental gymnastics people are using to make a very clear "B book" model somehow appear as "A book" is staggering.
Zero sum game closed systems...
they arnet magical, they are all the same.
And understanding why CME Futures price so far from the index compared to perps is another big difference.
Both markets (perps and futures) are auctioning the price for some future settlement.
Perps constantly roll that settlement forward, basically 1 day at a time. Each day is kind of like a new futures contract- the prior days contracts are settled, a roll fee is assessed, and the market continues day after day without a hard expiration. You don't see anything but a fee hit your account.
Futures roll at one specific settlement time per contract. After that, a new contract is established to continue the future auction to the next delivery, many times months in the future. You have to actually close the old contract and establish a position in the new contract to hold it through settlement.
That difference in price between spot index and futures / perps - is the "carry" a market demands to hold a position through that expiration date.
A 'premium' for time and the risk of volatility over that period (in a sense).
Perps price that via funding rates and market spread, which futures do so via calander spreads (the difference in price between two expirations); but it's essentially the same functional mechanic as time value in options.
Learn to trade the carry and you can trade literally anything.
Some interesting stats (Perps vs Futures props) 👀
- Nasdaq perps wick 10+ points on order flow that only moves CME NQ 1 point.
- CME NQ sits 100–200 pts above the index while most perps stay within 10–25 pts.
- Perps charge funding (10–15% annualized if you hold one side) - CME NQ has none.
Size accordingly or else keep donating!
I have this debate with my internal risk team (aka my big balls) all the time.
You can be as fancy as you want: but trading is just exploiting statistical edges in open markets...
Undoubtly if you can reduce the cost/monetary risk of any outcome (not the probability) you are also increasing your edge...
We often only talk about the edge of probability increasing, but we leave out the profitability that can be gained through a different risk ratio... You can turn a coin flip into positive expectancy this way; by earning over 1.1:1 reward/risk for every 1:1 probable outcome.
Prop let's us do this by reducing the actual risk upfront without changing the contract size an account is exposed to (you get all the benefits of that size, without the actual cost).
"But now you are just gambling"
... Am I?
NGL.
I would laugh my little butt off if all of a sudden every discord thread was made public.
Can you imagine the tea that will be spilled?!
#Discord Messages in Discoverable Servers Will Soon Be Searchable on Google:
share.google/LQCofbWOBiTZXuO…
The amount of mental gymnastics people are using to make a very clear "B book" model somehow appear as "A book" is staggering.
Zero sum game closed systems...
they arnet magical, they are all the same.
If we all want more transparency- why is the "next great thing" the least transparent venture I have ever seen?
The fact there is someone or an institution - even my own broker- on the other side of my trades doesn't bother me...
Good luck!
What bothers me is that there is risk of systemic failure when there is no insulation between the exchange, clearing firm, broker, and prop trader...
When one entity provides ALL those services to a retail client in a dark "liquidity pool" the call their own "order book" - there is a long history of failure attempts to bucket risk of counter parties like this...
Why is this time different?
Gold is the currency of Kings
Silver is the coin of Gentlemen
and DEBT is the shakel of slaves!
yeah I'm certainly not trading with them and I'm certainly doing my due diligence and offering my opinion of the matter to anyone who wants to hear it.
Stay away from Vest.
hope I'm wrong for all my friends that are trading with Vest sake, but it's 100000000% not for me.
This somehow is worse...
Everyone keeps screaming "vest is a scam, it's all fake, nothing hits the book" so instead of arguing in the replies i went and tested it myself 👇
Same day, same NQ, market orders, screen recorded the whole thing
LIVE funded account: LANTOS Burner 01
bought 0.0413 NQ at $29,621.00 at 07:28:35 → $1.22K buy printed on the tape, same price, same second
closed at $29,612.75 at 07:29:09 → $1.22K sell printed on the tape, same price, same second
EVAL account: LANTOS Burner 49
Sold 0.0341 NQ at $29,604.25 at 07:27:13 → nothing on the tape
bought back at $29,605.00 at 07:27:30 → nothing on the tape
trade history matches every fill. watch the video, i highlighted all of it
So live trades hit vest's book and evals don't. they're not handling them the same way
What this doesn’t prove: where vest hedges after your trade prints. that’s on vest to answer, not me. their terms say any live trading happens “if at all” at their discretion, so to me it’s a hybrid where they decide what goes live, and i’ve said that from day one.
but "nothing is real, it's all sim" is just wrong. and don't take my word for it either, go test it yourself. place a market order on your live account and one on your eval, use an odd size so it's easy to spot, keep the Trades tab open and screen record it. then check your trade history for the exact second and see what shows up on the tape
Full transparency, i'm an affiliate with vest and almost every other firm. i'd post the same test no matter whose name was on it. I just hate the misinformation that people are spreading for clout.