Mormon history & truth claims • BYU sports • politics
Joined August 2013
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Most Correct-ish retweeted
Fair pushback on position, so let me be straight about where I actually land on the Book of Mormon.
The official position of the Church has to stay that it’s historical. I’m not asking anyone in Salt Lake to change that. Community of Christ went down that road and watched their numbers collapse, and if the Church did the same you’d probably lose 50% to 80% of the membership. The story is what built the temples.
But there’s a difference between what the institution teaches and what the institution can tolerate. Right now it’s all or nothing, and all or nothing is a brittle way to believe.
It works fine until a smart, faithful member starts reading the history and the origin story of the book and ends up with doubts he can’t pray away.
Under the current framework he has two options, pretend or leave. Most of them leave.
And these aren’t the lazy or the lukewarm. They’re the deep thinkers, the returned missionaries who read everything, the ones who would have run the ward for the next forty years. We hand them a test the book was never written to pass and then act surprised when they fail it.
So my position isn’t that the Church should teach what I believe. It’s that a member should be able to say “I’m not sure the Nephites were real, but I know God touched Joseph and I know what this book does to my life,” and still be welcome, still hold a recommend, still be LDS. Keep the official teaching. Widen the door.
And yeah, Brigham would probably throw me out. But pretty sure he would throw you out as well.
in christ ♥️
--Kirk
Appreciate this thought exercise:
1. I agree. However, believing it “really happened” doesn’t necessarily mean you believe an actual angel from God named Moroni spoke to Joseph Smith. Is that what you mean by “real?” That the Angel Moroni was actually sent by God the Father and actually spoke to and directed Joseph Smith?
2. If you mean someone can interpret a vision based on their contextual understanding and environment, I agree. If the claim is someone’s mind subconsciously created a vision based on their environment, then I don’t believe it would be a vision in the form of an intentional heavenly manifestation.
3. Yes, this goes back to my point #2. God speaks to us in our understanding and knowledge. However, God didn’t have them dictate an inspired text supporting what they saw as and claim it as historical. Very very different. Apples to oranges. They don’t compare. Where is the fruit to support what they saw was of God? We need to test that fruit not js it take their word for it and compare it to the fruits Joseph Smith produced.
3. Yes. But he didn’t see images and wrote down what he saw. He saw words. Texts. And when wrong, he could not translate further until it was right. This weakens the point of just inspiration by vision. Literal texts that had to be accurate enough to proceed forward. Why? Not jsut to tell a story but to tell a historical narrative that happened.
4. I agree. That’s how the ancients spoke and passed things along. But their lives and experiences were still historical even if their stories weren’t.
5. Maybe, but it doesn’t explain the Angel Moroni. God just sent an angel named Moroni and then placed Him in the Book of Mormon as an ancient prophet just for the heck of it? Why even introduce him as Moroni if there never needed to be a correlation between the two? Doesn’t make sense outside of convenience for a theory.
6. I never claimed he was a fraud., so we agree.
7. “Real God, real vision, real book that came from somewhere beyond Joseph… None of that needs a single Nephite to have walked the earth.” I agree. Yet the Prophets unanimously say it has. For someone that’s wants The Church to go back to its roots, this is a very modern and apologetic take. Brigham Young would want you to remove his image from your profile for this 😂🖤
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TL;DR - To me, it’s a convenient apologetic and an easier pill to swallow for those who don’t feel like faith alone is enough. Time is on the side of The Prophets 💪🏾 I believe it.
Most Correct-ish retweeted
Your loved one who has stepped away from the faith already has a Savior. He is infinitely loving and mighty to save. They are in very capable, nail-scarred hands. Trying to control their faith usually creates more hurt. Letting the Lord be their Savior frees you to be their mom, their brother, their friend. Jesus Christ is working on them, and He's working on you too. The Lord sees far more than a membership record; He sees their heart. So let go of fixing, and enjoy the wonderful person in front of you.
#GeneralConference
Most Correct-ish retweeted
Listen.
If $9,000 is the thing that is going to let moms stay home and for families to have more children, then make it a $9,000 tax credit.
If you want them to have $9,000, then government shouldn’t take the $9000 from them to start with. Giving back the money they took like it’s a favor when they could just let them keep it. Even worse, government shouldn’t have to take $15,000 from someone else while keeping $6,000 for itself snd then “give” the $9,000 it stole from someone else.
Reduce taxes. Don’t increase spending.