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Blaire White Challenges James Barr on Trans Rights — Then Piers Morgan Forces Him to Answer a Question About Women’s Prisons Blaire White: Speaking as a trans woman, we’re reaching a point where we have to acknowledge that there have been excesses within the trans movement. It’s hurt women, it’s hurt children, and it’s put people off. When it comes to prisons, biological men should not be in women’s prisons. In some US states, you don’t even need reassignment surgery to be placed in a women’s prison. It can be based on self-identification. This doesn’t just harm women and children. It also damages trans people and makes the public question what’s happening. Piers Morgan: Scotland’s political turmoil followed a controversy over placing a male rapist in a women’s prison. People questioned why someone who had committed rape as a biological male would be placed in a women’s prison. Blaire White: Exactly. Politicians are afraid of being called transphobic, and that’s frightening. Piers Morgan: James, you come on this show week after week and speak on behalf of trans people. You’ve just heard a trans woman explain why she thinks you’re wrong. Are you going to tell her how she should feel? James Barr: The idea that politicians are afraid to be transphobic isn’t entirely accurate. Our prime minister has made jokes about trans people and faced criticism for them. But we’re moving away from an era when people felt they couldn’t challenge the movement without being seen as being on the wrong side of history. People are becoming more aware of the excesses we’re discussing. I don’t really care about jokes. If I had to choose between stopping jokes and protecting women’s safety, I’d prioritise women’s safety. Piers Morgan: James, do you think trans people should be placed in women’s prisons? James Barr: I think they should be safe, as should all prisoners. Piers Morgan: That’s not an answer. Should they be allowed in women’s prisons or not? James Barr: Honestly, I don’t understand the issue well enough to comment, and I don’t want to make a definitive statement. Piers Morgan: Do you think trans women athletes should be allowed to compete against biological women? James Barr: Yes, absolutely. Piers Morgan: Do you see any inconsistency between those positions? James Barr: I don’t really know, because I haven’t taken a position on prisons. Officer Tatum: Because you’re scared to go against the data! You’re afraid of being called transphobic, just like Blaire said. It’s mind-blowingly ridiculous to think that a man with a penis who identifies as a woman can be in a women’s prison. That’s insane. The man has a penis, and he’s in a cell with a woman. James Barr: She’s a woman. She’s a woman. Officer Tatum: This is the problem with society. We need to be logical, reasonable, and operate on facts. It’s a man who identifies as a woman. It’s not a woman. Why can’t we get that right?